Note: The last edits to this file were made on 6/13/2023 off-site with the addition of the new Pitaya story.
Okay, now I'm mad. Devsis continues to give visual and written information that conflicts with each other in a way that is so stupid actually. Here, let me explain.
Unreliable Timeline Information
There's a handful of bits that, when mixed together, don't add up- these bits include, but are not limited to, young Cacao having seen the giant icing ridge as it was and not before it was formed, Pitaya saying White Lily made a promise to them thousands of years ago, those who saw the Dark Flour War being alive and looking as though they've got plenty of years left, Red Velvet, Pomegranate, and the incident at the Cake Tower itself, where White Lily was turned into Dark Enchantress. We will also include the Academy years, if only to discuss why shit seems so fucked, and Millennial Tree's supposed age.
You may think, 'well, I'm not sure how this is supposed to be conflicting information,' but we actually do have, at the very least, both visual and written proof that White Lily cookie could not have made that promise to Pitaya thousands of years ago, not in White Lily, but in Dark Cacao cookie, with the icing ridge. Dark Cacao states himself the Giant Icing Ridge is a millennia old, but the Giant Icing Ridge is as it was when we see Cacao in his younger years- thus, Cacao cannot be any older than 1,000 years old. As they were all friends in their younger years, and they did not have their soul jams to keep them immortal, all of them are younger than 1,000 years old.
This means that Dark Enchantress Cookie cannot be any older than 1,000 years old, as she is, of course, White Lily's new identity. This rules out the possibility of her being there for the very first banquet, and also rules out Pomegranate having discussed and found out of her death and rebirth on the day of a banquet. IF Earthbread is a minimum of 1,000 years old (which it is,) there have been at least two banquets, as White Lily fell into old ultimate dough, not a fresh batch. With Red Velvet being unable to be immortal or to slow aging at all (Dark Enchantress would use this immortality to her advantage if she could, as that's what she was searching for all her life,) her rebirth has to have happened very recently. Keep in mind that Dark Enchantress supposedly does not have a soul jam, and so, is not immortal (White Lily fell into the ultimate dough without her soul jam, making her very young when she did so.)
It's also important to note that Pomegranate was Dark Enchantress's first follower besides Red Velvet, a very recent development within the timeline (though I'm not sure if she followed before or after the war.) If she followed after, then Pomegranate's age does not truly matter, as she does not dictate the war timeline in any way, but if it was before, Pomegranate, too, is not immortal, and thus, her age helps to dictate the timeline of the war.
If White Lily cookie were to turn, she would have had to have been at the second banquet onward, marking her TURNING as on the millennia. If the Giant Icing Ridge is a millennia old, our timeline depends solely on when that icing ridge was formed. Was it formed at the beginning of Earthbread's creation? Was it formed later on?
This is crucial, because Pitaya says White Lily made a promise to them thousands of years ago- impossible, if Millennial Tree is the oldest being on the planet, but only a millennia old (and also impossible if the Giant Icing Ridge was formed during the creation of Earthbread.) I believe in Ovenbreak, Millennial Tree was around before the dragons were, too. That would make Pitaya younger than Millennial Tree. If Millennial Tree is, of course, a thousand years old, and White Lily was young when she fell into the ultimate dough (which would have had to have happened recently,) that means White Lily was at the second banquet for sure. Thus, White Lily would have made that promise (at maximum) around a hundred years ago, NOT thousands.
Why is the Blueberry Yogurt Academy relevant?
It depends. There are a couple of ways you can look at the Academy years- as White Lily and Pure Vanilla's childhood years (middle to high school,) a very unlikely happenstance, given the amount of freedom and cognizance they would have had as children (some people even think they were in gradeschool? With the way they talk, they would have had to at the very least been in middle school,) or as their college years, which is more likely given the amount of resources White Lily had to conduct, perform, and record research, all available to her within the school (as well as the lab being one uncharacteristic of a lower grade setting, and VERY empty during what is supposed to be class time.)
If you view the Academy as their college years (as I do,) there is the possibility of her having gone through the Dark Moon Portal and finding the Cake Tower there, transforming the very night she ever dared to reach for the secret of immortality. This, of course, would make the Ancients very young, with the turning incident adding about 60 years maximum (which would make Red Velvet 70-ish.) Where I thought this a possibility before, I no longer do so now. Vanilla went on a pilgrimage after his years at the Academy and then built his kingdom, which would... give him a very small window of time to be king before the Dark Flour War went down.
Them being in their college years at the Academy IS still important for a couple of reasons, however- this gives White Lily a small margin of time to turn into Dark Enchantress before the youth of the Ancients is locked in with their soul jam. They didn't finish their years at the Academy and look very fresh as they attend, meaning they likely attended between the ages of 18 and 25. With some math below for approximating Vanilla's pilgrimage time, I'd give him a maximum of 9 years after the Academy before he created his kingdom. At 18, this would make him 27, and at 25, this would make him 34. The Ancients seem to have obtained their soul jam around the same times, but if they didn't, I would assume Pure Vanilla Cookie got his first, as he looks the youngest. White Lily Cookie doesn't talk to Pure Vanilla again until his coronation. This leaves a good chunk of time for White Lily to turn unsupervised, but does not necessarily mean she turned here.
It is also important to note!!! The Ancients all met each other before they had their soul jam, and had adventures together, meaning a couple of years passed where they were not immortalized (minimum) before they obtained their soul jam. It is possible that Pure Vanilla met the others on his pilgrimage and had adventures with them then, but it remains that White Lily had some of those adventures as well. Cacao looks, at the very oldest, 50, but Vanilla looks younger than Red Velvet. If Vanilla established his kingdom at 27, this would give them a good, say, 23 years before Dark Enchantress would have to turn. If he established his kingdom at 34, that would give them 16.
Working this math out to give a window on how much the Ancients would have actually known of White Lily. It, isn't very much. Even if White Lily Cookie was their friend for years, Hollyberry mentions she was gone most of the time, making their image of her (even Vanilla's,) limited and fuzzy. Of course, you get more flex time if their Academy days were as children, but that would make Vanilla in his early 20s when he made his kingdom... yikes.
ALSO TO NOTE, the Ancients had people come before them- while the artbook is not a reliable source of information, it can give us a good idea of worldbuilding. Hollyberry was born in the area that is currently the Hollyberry kingdom, and was made their queen when she was successful at scaring off the dragons that scourged their lands. Ignoring, of course, the very obvious 'there was an entire Academy with centuries of knowledge to access within its walls, all established before White Lily and Pure Vanilla ever studied there, making the Ancients very unlikely to be thousands of years old or as old as ancient society.'
Other Juicy Bits and Math
First, I'd like to dispel the assumption that Cacao would have to know the age of the Giant Icing Ridge by being as old as the Giant Icing Ridge. There are likely historians that know methods like carbon dating to get an accurate read on how old the ridge is, as well as many older entities that could tell him how old it is (including the black and white dragons he fought where he founded his kingdom, if he chose to be friendly with them.) I would say that if the Academy was truly as established as it was supposed to be, they, too, would have a solid idea of history, which would mean Cacao could also attend a school of his own, knowledgeable in the age of the landscape.
I would also like to dispel the idea that as Ancients, they have to be older than the Legendaries, or around the same age. According to Ovenbreak, Earthbread and Millennial Tree were born at the same time, with Millennial Tree possibly being older (via his quote "I remember the day this land was born" in his character screen. You may fact check me with the wikis as you go if you like.) It is, of course, impossible for Cacao to have been born at Earthbread's creation, not even because of the ridge, but because of the existence of the Academy, the fact that Lily was turned at a banquet where old dough was used, and because it is well established within lore that dragons were around for at least a couple hundred years before cookies were.
Thus, our timeline also proves limited by Millennial Tree's age. We don't actually know how old he is, so this one's a bit blurry? If Millennial Tree is only around 1,000 years old, then, of course, the Giant Icing Ridge was created when Earthbread was, and around the time of the first banquet. This would most DEFINITELY make the Ancients within 100 years of age, and make Pitaya a very unreliable narrator. If Millennial Tree is multiple millennia, then Pitaya's claims could be true at the same time that it has to be true that the Ancients are within 100 years of age (given the existence of Red Velvet)...
... but only if White Lily can use time sorcery or project illusions across time and space. I feel like Dark Enchantress would be using this sorcery to her advantage if she had it, though, so I don't think this is the case.
Doesn't White Lily have her soul jam when she falls into the ultimate dough?
Addressing this a little late, and, no. If you go back and look at the cutscene, she doesn't have her jam with her. This is actually further proven by the fact that Dark Enchantress has a candy in Ovenbreak, which means she will have a candy in Kingdom and was always intended to have a candy in Kingdom.
The funny thing is, Pitaya says something that I think a lot of people missed- White Lily crushed her soul jam to make that promise with Pitaya. It's why Pitaya asks Hollyberry to crush hers to help them- it's a requirement of making a promise like this in Dragontongue, and an equal exchange of power between the two making said promise. This means that White Lily no longer has a soul jam IF she's still around as a separate entity somehow (even if illusionary,) but can also mean that she obtained her soul jam before turning and have lost it to her own hubris, which, I don't think is actually possible for one reason and one reason only.
Dark Enchantress is still looking for the soul jam she herself was supposed to hold.
This is the biggest point in favor of White Lily somehow being a separate entity, but it DOES mean that White Lily herself would have done this without the influence of Dark Enchantress, which... would make them both equally villainous, and would mean it's not actually Dark Enchantress manipulating Pitaya's promise, but White Lily instead (but like I already knew she was a villain so.) At best benefit of the doubt for White Lily, the White Lily with said soul jam has always been an illusion created by Dark Enchantress with a will of its own. This does not bode well for White Lily either way.
A few more important points to mention within Kingdom's timeline include Vanilla's pilgrimage, the mark on his forehead, the Dark Flour War, Dark Choco's birth, Milk's age, the colonization of the Creme Republic, Custard Cookie's age, and Custard III's age. We'll start with Vanilla's pilgrimage.
Continuing Where I Left Off
Vanilla left for his pilgrimage after the Blueberry Yogurt Academy was destroyed and all the other inhabitants killed by Lily's grotesque attempt at genetic immortality experiments (allow me to remind you that magic does exist. Look at Snapdragon's skill, where Snapdragon, as a baby, buffs all stats, including max HP and damage resist. While this is ancient and arcane magic and something White Lily was looking for, this... sort of implies that she didn't ever have to do what she did at the academy in the first place? But I'll talk about that more in a different place later.) While I, personally, have reasons to believe they were attending a college and not an elementary or middle school, we will adhere to the common belief that they were attending some sort of grade school, as given Vanilla's strong Christly influence in his character design, there is a possibility he left for his pilgrimage at the age of 12, when Jesus made his first pilgrimage. If we assume that Earthbread is similar in size to our own earth, that would mean that, accounting for good sleep, if you were to walk uninterrupted while awake, it would take 3.5 years to walk across the globe. However, the average is closer to 8 years and 9 months, and Vanilla's pilgrimage is a spiritual journey and a search for a way to ease the suffering of all cookies. If I remember correctly, he only travels half of Earthbread, so that 8-9 year number is a little more realistic for him. If he started at 12, that would mean he stopped his pilgrimage around the age of 20, and became king of his kingdom almost immediately after. This is partially why I prefer the theory that they were going to college, as that would put him closer to 30 when his pilgrimage ends, especially as White Lily spends his entire pilgrimage attempting to make up for her egregious actions and impact at the academy, and meets him for the first time since the Academy at his coronation.
Pure Vanilla did not have his mark at the Academy, but obtained it during his pilgrimage. He had his mark, but not his soul jam, at his coronation and when he made friends with the other Ancients, but the Ancients were not at his coronation, which tells us they could not have made friends during the Academy years. This makes the time where Vanilla had his mark and not his soul jam the time period when Dark Enchantress turned, unless she turned at the Academy (not... a likely possibility, given our next steps.)
Premier Custard Cookie is Pure Vanilla Cookie's first Royal Advisor, father to Custard II and grandfather to Custard III, brother of Custard Cookie. The day of the Dark Flour War, Custard Cookie fled with the kingdom's survivors to seek refuge elsewhere. Thus, the colonization of the Creme Republic happened shortly after the Dark Flour War. As Custard Cookie doesn't look older than 50 when we meet him during present day, but Premier Custard looks to be at least 40 when we see him the day of the war, we're going to assume Custard Cookie was much younger than Premier Custard, and put him at 20-ish. Custard III doesn't look to be older than 8, meaning Custard II is likely in his 30s or 40s (though if Custard II was in his 40s, that would make Custard Cookie around 60, which is also realistic.) This means the Dark Flour War happened around 40 years ago, with Vanilla's kingdom, if you push it, being a maximum of 40 years old at the time of the Dark Flour War, though, more likely, only around 20 years old.
This is, of course, ignoring the very real existence of Red Velvet, who is actually our biggest marker for the Dark Flour War's possible timeline. Red Velvet is not nearly as old as Custard Cookie, being between 30 and 50, likely being in his 30s or 40s as he still looks quite youthful. This means that the Dark Flour War was actually, in all likelihood, between 20 and 30 years ago, but at maximum 40 years. Vanilla's kingdom looks established, so, perhaps, we can push the age of Vanilla's kingdom to 60 years maximum, if we are being generous- however, that's... simply not the case. In all likelihood, Vanilla's kingdom was a fast-progressing and bustling kingdom, as if Dark Enchantress turned younger than they obtained their soul jam, that gives Red Velvet a very small window of aging before the Dark Flour War begins (likely with a maximum of 10 years.) 20 years old for his kingdom is a more realistic age.
Dark Choco Cookie's birth is... undetermined in the timeline. However, he was likely born after the Dark Flour War, given that as a young prince he saved the Milk Village, with Milk being between what looks like 4 and 10 at the time, with Choco's young prince costume marking him in either his late teens or early adulthood. Milk is now a young adult, definitely in his 20s, with Choco being closer to his 30s or 40s. This further reinforces Custard II's estimated age and the timeline between present day and the Dark Flour War. This also further reinforces the idea that Red Velvet is around his 30s or 40s.
Given this timeline, we can assume that the Dark Flour War actually happened within the last 20 years, as opposed to the 40 years I had worked out before I made these edits. This means that the Ancients are even younger than I previously thought, all thanks to Pitaya saying 'thousands' of years like some sort of fucking chump.
Simple Math Time
To add it all up, we have (at minimum,) 34+20+40, which is 94. However, as mentioned before, the period after the Dark Flour War is likely 20 years, and Vanilla likely created his kingdom even younger than the age of 34.
Going at minimum ages for the theory that Vanilla attended college, and my generous pilgrimage time, that would be 27+20+20, which is... 67. If you go with the maximum age for them being in their youth, it's around the same, given it's possible the Academy would have been destroyed in the year of their graduation (which is unlikely, as White Lily talks about skipping a grade in her report card reading cutscene.)
Wait, skipping a grade? Doesn't that mean they WERE in gradeschool?
Well, actually, no. College back in ye olden days here on our earth went from 9th grade upward, and was primarily comprised of adults. While this still leaves the very small possibility of White Lily being a child during her college years, it is... highly unlikely, especially given White Lily doesn't actually seem to have known much of anyone before attending the Blueberry Yogurt Academy.
,,, I would also add that if you want them to be any younger than they already are here, that would be kinda nuts.
Why Are They Called the Ancients?
Well, the answer to that is that even given their relatively short lifespan, Earthrbread is very young, and technological progression is slow. More likely, their kingoms are the equivalent of Earthbread's Middle Ages with the Republic being the turn of the Industrial Revolution, or some shit like that. IDK. It's mostly for rarity's sake and for the 'oooooooo ancient kingdom stuff look at all this fantasy and magic!!!!' and the whole 'ancient power of the gods' thing. They're still old! They'll always be old, even if they look young. They're just not, like, 300+ years old or anything like that.
Do I.. Have to Use This Timeline?
Nope! You never had to, I just wanted to make my page and share my thoughts. Ultimately, the game is still ongoing, and anything I say could be swept away by Devsis declaring even the most nonsensical of notions to be true, as they ultimately decide what is canon. I could be very wrong! However, I do think I have as solid of a timeline as we're going to get for now. Headcanon whatever you want, man, it's a wild world out there and you deserve to be happy in it.
Final Notes
I'm hoping putting this out there in a... less scrambled way than I did on my tumblr blog will allow for the gears to get turning in someone else's head, or help anyone out who was confused. I don't have any of my sources on here as I'm just quickly typing this up since I thought about it. THEY DO EXIST OUT THERE! This will be updated with sources soon.